Wednesday, January 24, 2018

Cuphead, Cruelty, and Selling Unfairness to You.

Teacher, mother, secret lover.

When charming indie megahit Cuphead came out, I watched a ton of it on Twitch. How could I not? It's so pretty!

I wasn't planning to play it. I like to play one super-tough game a year, to show I can still game hard like the cool kidz. But I'd already played Bloodborne last year, and my aging heart won't take much more than that.

Then my wife got me a Black Friday sale XBox One so that we could play Gears of War 4 together, so I figured I might as well try Cuphead for real.

Because of what I do for a living, of course, all of the following analysis is being done to find ideas I can steal to make more money.

Yeah, Cuphead Is Really Good

It was a huge amount of fun. I played a lot by myself. A lot co-op with my teenage daughter. A reasonable amount with my 11-year old daughter. Turns out my kids can be serious hardcore "Die 50 times and keep at it!" gamers when the bad guys are saucy mermaid ladies.

What really struck me was how little watching the game on Twitch prepared me for actually playing it. This was because Cuphead constantly uses randomness (RNG, for short) better than just about any game I've ever played.

Ever notice how sometimes a character comes along and every fan artist must come up with their own take on it instantly? I think that's cool. (Link not entirely safe for work.)

The Deadly RNG

Just about every attempt against a boss in Cuphead plays out differently from every other try. It's not only the standard Dark Souls thing where each boss has a move set and it picks an attack at random and you have to react to it. (Though it has that, of course.)

The fights are also random in every other way they can be:

Timing of the Attack - A bull is about to lunge forward to attack. It rears back. Then the amount of time until it actually launches the attack varies. Sometimes it's instant. Sometimes it's a good long pause. And sometimes the wait is so long is throws off my timing entirely and I blunder right into the attack.

Timing of Attackers - Little fireballs run across the screen. Sometimes one jumps up at you. Sometimes the pause between leapers is so long that you think the game is broke and you get complacent and BAM. And then three go all at once. (which can be evaded, but it's a rare enough occurrence that the player won't have a canned response for it.)

Random Attack Sets - In a lavish display of developer effort, some bosses have entirely different skill sets every time you launch the fight.

Multiple Simultaneous Attack Sets - The mermaid has two sets of three attacks, one set from the air and one from the water. It picks one from each set and uses them simultaneously, for nine different attacks to react to.

Random Terrain - Two fights have you battle while leaping along moving, randomly arranged platforms. To avoid an attack, you need to very quickly evaluate the routes available to you and select the best one.

This boss made my daughter cry. I hugged her. Then I beat it quickly and she was mad at me. At least we're having family time.

The End Result

This is why watching the game doesn't convey the experience of playing it. You can't get through Cuphead with patterns. Well, some fights you can. But most of the time, you have to learn how the system works, practice with it, and perform within it, adapting fluidly to surprises as you go.

Sometimes the RNG hands you a really nasty situation, but the vast majority of the time the situation you get is fair and survivable. You just have to take in the situation, come up with a plan very fast, and execute it.

The brilliance of the design is in making a system with RNG that keeps the game unpredictable and tough but still fair. I think this sort of probability manipulation is underrated as a skill in game design.

Obvious Disclaimer For People Who Are Already Yelling At Me In the Comments Anyway

Obviously, a lot of gamers don't like high challenge games. A lot of gamers don't like missions they can fail. Nothing wrong with this.

Cuphead isn't aiming for the casual market. Most of the time, I don't either. I'm looking for ways to better sell to this market.

If you're trying to write a game that will appeal to every single person everywhere, you're probably already doomed.

Unfairness Is a Selling Point

In a game like this, the occasional unfair, unescapable death is a selling point. There are some gamers for whom such a situation doesn't induce a Ragequit. It inspires a determination to excel.

If I don't kill you occasionally, how will your accomplishments have meaning?

Playing the RNG In an RPG

Darkest Dungeon is another game with great use of randomness. When you take your party into a dungeon, you can get a run of savage bad luck. If things get bad, you can pull the ripcord at almost any moment, abandon your run, and save your group (with a penalty). The skill comes in constantly evaluating your situation and deciding when it's time to give up. If you can't do that, you will have a hard time.

I've always tried to have a lot of this in my indie RPGs. I write long games, and I want to make sure it's always interesting and unpredictable and there's a chance that things can go south quickly if you're not careful.

I give enemies large move sets and make sure that they can approach a fight differently each time. I use a critical hit system to make sure you can never get too complacent. Sometimes, enemies run for help, and it's random how long they'll hang around before they do.

(If you want to see this system in action, our new game, Avernum 3: Ruined World, is out at the end of January.)

Heck, the whole genre of Roguelikes depends on randomness of your adventure. You gamble your time and hope you get a situation you can survive.

Of course, video game accomplishments don't have meaning. My job is to create the illusion that they do.

What Is the Gain From this Randomness

Humans like to gamble, and we have loved gambling for all of our recorded history. Gambling doesn't have to be for money, and it doesn't need lootboxes.

The joy of gambling comes from the unpredictability, the increasingly rare life pleasure of being unsure what is about to happen. RNG in your game means bad luck might cause you to fail. Some people mistakenly think that this is a flaw, when it is in fact a great strength.

The ideal for my games is that, for battles of an appropriate level, there is always a tiny chance to fail. Similarly, for Cuphead, unless you're a completely superior player, there is a chance that an unexpected chain of events will outwit and defeat you.

When you lack a human opponent to provide unpredictability, randomness must serve this role and provide the surprises. This provides suspense and unpredictability. For a large portion of gamers, being surprised is a highly valued product that can be sold at a premium.

It's a leapy boi! Look at him go!


### 

If you're intrigued by giant indie RPGs with epic stories and tough, unpredictable fights, you can wishlist Avernum 3 on Steam. It's out January 31. News about our work and random musings can be found on our Twitter.

145 comments:

  1. Personally, I'm OK with losing, but only as long as it doesn't force me to replay a lot of content (which is why I usually don't like roguelikes, and like your games, where I can save at almost any time). I'd go as far as to say that "not having to replay the same content over and over again" is one of the main factors in enjoying the game for me.

    But it doesn't mean that everything should be easy. Just that a lot of games are setup in such way, that to get to the "hard" point you've got to replay a lot of "easy"/"boring" content (think level/boss) - this sucks BIG TIME. Yes, I get that the way you play through that "easy" content can affect the hardness of the "hard" content (lives, energy, weapons), but still - I just don't want to replay it all. Allow me to try the boss for 10 times in a row, and I'll be more or less OK with that, but if I have to get through the whole level to get to him again after every fail, then ragequit is very close for me.

    For the same reason, I don't like it when the difficulty in the game is "spread" over the long time instead of being concentrated in several independent points. This is why I generally hate JRPGs: there, battles are usually won easily as long as you freely expend HP, potions and mana, all of which do not regenerate after a battle. So at the start of the dungeon, you can easily defeat any group of enemies, but a the end, even a single simple enemy can become deadly if you spent all resources before.

    Compare and contrast with the approach popular in Western RPGS (including Spiderweb titles) recently: when hp and (maybe) mana are restored after every combat, but every combat by itself can be very difficult (the recent Divinity: Original Sin 2 is a PERFECT demonstration of this concept: it has exactly 0 "trash" combats: every single is different, and presents unique, hard challenge - in terms of combat desing, this game is perfection).

    In the first case, if I lose, if I spend resources unwisely at the start of the dungeon, I can find myself in a "walking dead" scenario, where I already lost, but I don't know that yet. And when I fail, I'll have to replay the whole dungeon, or a large chunk of it (because even if the saves are allowed at any time, I'll need to revert to far-away save, before I wasted precious resources). In the second case, I always know that I only have to replay one battle, "solve" it. No need to plod through dozens of seemingly easy encounters which slowly drain my resources. This is much more fun, though I can't quite quantify why. Maybe I just don't have strategic thinking, but can handle tactics well enough - that observations fits not only my gamer personality, but also the real-life one.

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  2. Some people have a real problem with the randomness - much more so in computer games than board games it seems. Julian 'X-Com' Gollop's lethal duelling wizards game Chaos Reborn had to add an extra 'low randomness' mode because people just couldn't hack the idea that their wizard could fail to cast spells sometimes, and die in a single hit even from a seemingly pathetic creature, if they were unlucky.
    Personally I prefer this kind of all-or-nothing combat over a predictable, steady attrition of many, many hit points over many rounds. That's not combat, that's graph vs graph. I really dislike the idea of getting deliberately hit because you absolutely know you'll survive it.

    ReplyDelete
  3. I completely agree with your assessment, but while i really like your games, i still think you don't design boss battles well enough.

    In Cuphead, failing is fine because you can just get back into the fray in an instant. In your games, Bosses are damage sponges and the fights take forever. By the time i fail them, i'm not into the mood to try them again. It's not ragequitting. I'm just bored.

    I hope you can learn something from Cuphead. :) And being an RPG isn't an excuse for bad boss fights.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I disagree somewhat about boss battles in Spiderweb games. I always held them to be one of the better examples of boss battles in RPGs: they are often inventive, using additional objects, spawns and character abilities to make the player think. They might not be perfect, but they are far better than average.

      But I get your problem: replaying a long battle from the start can be daunting. However, it's hard to entirely fix that: short turn-based battles could be won on chance alone, and that's not good.

      One possibility is to allow the player to save the game inside the combat (a la Divinity: Original Sin 2 or Fallout 2). This can lead to random-scumming, but it fixes the problem with overly-long combats somewhat and allows older games with responsibilities to step away from the PC at a moment's notice without the need to complete or abandon the battle. However, this might be technically difficult, as a lot of new things would need to be saved (AI states etc.).

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  4. I'm defining this type of games as Hurtware genre.

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  5. Amen Brother Brother... Never was a truer statement said:

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    Love your games and your Blog.

    keep up the great work.

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  8. I disagree somewhat about boss battles in Spiderweb games. I always held them to be one of the better examples of boss battles in RPGs: they are often inventive, using additional objects, spawns and character abilities to make the player think. They might not be perfect, but they are far better than average.

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    i'm here to testify about MR CLIFFORD blank atm cards which can withdraw money from any atm machines around the world. I was very poor before and have no job.I saw so many testimony about how CLIFFORD send them the ATM blank card and use it to collect money in any ATM machine and become rich. I email her also and he sent me the blank card. I have use it to get 80,000 dollars. withdraw the maximum of $10,000 daily. CLIFFORD is giving out the card just to help the poor. Hack and take money directly from any ATM Machine Vault with the use of ATM Programmed Card which runs in automatic mode. email (cliffordhackerspays@gmail.com.) on how to get it. He will gives out the card to anybody email CLIFFORD today and become rich cliffordhackerspays@gmail.com....

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  17. I promise to share this. Engr Micharel is the real hacker,his programmed ATM card work in any machine around the world.It all happen when i was broke because i lost my job and i could not pay my bills,life was so frustrating that i could not think of what to do to earn money. So I browse the internet and i saw a comment about Engr Michael Blank ATM card that can withdraw money from any ATM machine and i decide to give it a try.I got my already programmed and blanked ATM card to withdraw the maximum of $5000 daily. I am so happy about this because i got mine a month ago and I have been able to withdraw close to $78,000. Engr Michael is giving out the card just to help the poor and needy though it is illegal but it is something nice and he is not like other scam pretending to have the ATM cards. And no one gets caught when using the card. The card is programmed in a way that is not traceable so get yours from him. Just send him an email on (micharelatmhacker@gmail.com) call and text him +18508008129 and be happy like Me.

    ReplyDelete
  18. Hello everyone i just want to share my experience with you all. I have being hearing about this blank ATM card for a while and i never really paid any interest to it because of my doubts. They are really good at what they are doing. Back to the point, I inquired about The Blank ATM Card. If it works or even Exist.
    They told me Yes and that its a card programmed for random money withdraws without being noticed also has a technique that makes it impossible for the CCTVs to detect you can also be used for free online purchases of any kind. This was shocking and i still had my doubts. Then i gave it a try and asked for the card and agreed to their terms and conditions.
    Two days later i received my card and tried with the closest ATM machine close to me
    It worked like magic. I was able to withdraw up to $1,000 daily. This Cards comes in Visa/MasterCard. Therefore it works at any ATM Machine that accept Visa/MasterCard Worldwide. This was unbelievable and the happiest day of my life. So far i have being able to withdraw up to $20,000 without any stress of being caught. I don't know why i am posting this here, i just felt this might help those of us in need of financial stability. Mr Henry has really change my life. If you want to contact them, Here is the email address. {henrymark99@yahoo.com}
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    ReplyDelete
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  21. URGENT AFFORDABLE BLANK ATM CARD

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  23. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  24. I got my already programmed and blanked ATM card to withdraw the maximum of $50,000 daily for a maximum of 20 days. I am so happy about this because i got mine last week and I have used it to get $100,000. MRS MARY is giving out the card just to help the poor and needy though it is illegal but it is something nice and she is not like other scam pretending to have the blank ATM cards. And no one gets caught when using the card. get yours from her. Just send her an email On atmmachine443@gmail.com

    ReplyDelete
  25. HOW I HOT FAVORED WITH THE HELP OF A BLANK ATM CARD!!!

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  27. Hello friends i've been reluctant in purchasing this blank ATM card i heard about online because everything seems too good to be true, but i was convinced & shocked when my friend at my place of work got the card from ghost hackers & we both confirmed it really works, without delay i gave it a go. Ever since then I've been withdrawing $5000 daily from the card & the money has been in my own account. So glad i gave it a try at last & this card has really changed my life financially without getting caught, its real & truly works though its illegal but made me rich!! If you need this card from real hackers then here is their Email : noraatm@gmail.com

    ReplyDelete
  28. Hello friends i've been reluctant in purchasing this blank ATM card i heard about online because everything seems too good to be true, but i was convinced & shocked when my friend at my place of work got the card from ghost hackers & we both confirmed it really works, without delay i gave it a go. Ever since then I've been withdrawing $5000 daily from the card & the money has been in my own account. So glad i gave it a try at last & this card has really changed my life financially without getting caught, its real & truly works though its illegal but made me rich!! If you need this card from real hackers then here is their Email : noraatm@gmail.com

    ReplyDelete
  29. I GOT MY PROGRAMMED BLANK ATM CARD TO WITHDRAW A MAXIMUM OF $5000 DAILY.
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    ReplyDelete
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  32. HOW I BECAME A VICTOR AFTER SO MANY FAILED ATTEMPT OF GETTING A LOAN.

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  33. BEST WAY TO HAVE GOOD AMOUNT TO START A GOOD BUSINESS or TO START LIVING A GOOD LIFE..... Hack and take money directly from any ATM Machine Vault with the use of ATM Programmed Card which runs in automatic mode. email (williamshackers@hotmail.com) for how to get it and its cost . .......... EXPLANATION OF HOW THESE CARD WORKS.......... You just slot in these card into any ATM Machine and it will automatically bring up a MENU of 1st VAULT $10,000, 2nd VAULT $15,000, RE-PROGRAMMED, EXIT, CANCEL. Just click on either of the VAULTS, and it will take you to another SUB-MENU of ALL, OTHERS, EXIT, CANCEL. Just click on others and type in the amount you wish to withdraw from the ATM and you have it cashed instantly... Done. ***NOTE: DON'T EVER MAKE THE MISTAKE OF CLICKING THE "ALL" OPTION. BECAUSE IT WILL TAKE OUT ALL THE AMOUNT OF THE SELECTED VAULT. email (williamshackers@hotmail.com). We are located in USA and Turkey.

    ReplyDelete
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  36. I got my already programmed and blanked ATM card to withdraw the maximum of $50,000 daily for a maximum of 20 days. I am so happy about this because i got mine last week and I have used it to get $100,000. MRS MARY is giving out the card just to help the poor and needy though it is illegal but it is something nice and she is not like other scam pretending to have the blank ATM cards. And no one gets caught when using the card. get yours from her. Just send her an email On atmmachine443@gmail.com

    ReplyDelete
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  41. Today I'm rich with Engr Michael Blank ATM card. I bought the card with just little money, today I have make up to $15,000 with it. It's amazing. Please contact him and get yours. text him +18508008129, or Email: micharelatmhacker@gmail.com. He is really genuine.

    ReplyDelete

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  44. hello I am Christ from USA, I just want to share my experience with everyone here, I have being hearing about this Blank ATM Card for a while and I never really paid any interest to it because of my doubts, until I give it a try and I was given what I wanted and now I have pay my bills settle my debts and am a business CEO with the help of this Blank ATM Card
    you can contact the ATM HACKER that make this work out for me

    via e-mail: atmmachine1124@gmail.com

    ReplyDelete
  45. hello I am Christ from USA, I just want to share my experience with everyone here, I have being hearing about this Blank ATM Card for a while and I never really paid any interest to it because of my doubts, until I give it a try and I was given what I wanted and now I have pay my bills settle my debts and am a business CEO with the help of this Blank ATM Card
    you can contact the ATM HACKER that make this work out for me

    via e-mail: atmmachine1124@gmail.com

    ReplyDelete
  46. hello I am Christ from USA, I just want to share my experience with everyone here, I have being hearing about this Blank ATM Card for a while and I never really paid any interest to it because of my doubts, until I give it a try and I was given what I wanted and now I have pay my bills settle my debts and am a business CEO with the help of this Blank ATM Card
    you can contact the ATM HACKER that make this work out for me

    via e-mail: atmmachine1124@gmail.com

    ReplyDelete
  47. hello I am Christ from USA, I just want to share my experience with everyone here, I have being hearing about this Blank ATM Card for a while and I never really paid any interest to it because of my doubts, until I give it a try and I was given what I wanted and now I have pay my bills settle my debts and am a business CEO with the help of this Blank ATM Card
    you can contact the ATM HACKER that make this work out for me

    via e-mail: atmmachine1124@gmail.com

    ReplyDelete
  48. hello I am Christ from USA, I just want to share my experience with everyone here, I have being hearing about this Blank ATM Card for a while and I never really paid any interest to it because of my doubts, until I give it a try and I was given what I wanted and now I have pay my bills settle my debts and am a business CEO with the help of this Blank ATM Card
    you can contact the ATM HACKER that make this work out for me

    via e-mail: atmmachine1124@gmail.com

    ReplyDelete
  49. hello I am Christ from USA, I just want to share my experience with everyone here, I have being hearing about this Blank ATM Card for a while and I never really paid any interest to it because of my doubts, until I give it a try and I was given what I wanted and now I have pay my bills settle my debts and am a business CEO with the help of this Blank ATM Card
    you can contact the ATM HACKER that make this work out for me

    via e-mail: atmmachine1124@gmail.com

    ReplyDelete
  50. hello I am Christ from USA, I just want to share my experience with everyone here, I have being hearing about this Blank ATM Card for a while and I never really paid any interest to it because of my doubts, until I give it a try and I was given what I wanted and now I have pay my bills settle my debts and am a business CEO with the help of this Blank ATM Card
    you can contact the ATM HACKER that make this work out for me

    via e-mail: atmmachine1124@gmail.com

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
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  51. hello I am Christ from USA, I just want to share my experience with everyone here, I have being hearing about this Blank ATM Card for a while and I never really paid any interest to it because of my doubts, until I give it a try and I was given what I wanted and now I have pay my bills settle my debts and am a business CEO with the help of this Blank ATM Card
    you can contact the ATM HACKER that make this work out for me

    via e-mail: atmmachine1124@gmail.com

    ReplyDelete
  52. hello I am Christ from USA, I just want to share my experience with everyone here, I have being hearing about this Blank ATM Card for a while and I never really paid any interest to it because of my doubts, until I give it a try and I was given what I wanted and now I have pay my bills settle my debts and am a business CEO with the help of this Blank ATM Card
    you can contact the ATM HACKER that make this work out for me

    via e-mail: atmmachine1124@gmail.com

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  53. hello I am Christ from USA, I just want to share my experience with everyone here, I have being hearing about this Blank ATM Card for a while and I never really paid any interest to it because of my doubts, until I give it a try and I was given what I wanted and now I have pay my bills settle my debts and am a business CEO with the help of this Blank ATM Card
    you can contact the ATM HACKER that make this work out for me

    via e-mail: atmmachine1124@gmail.com

    ReplyDelete
  54. hello I am Christ from USA, I just want to share my experience with everyone here, I have being hearing about this Blank ATM Card for a while and I never really paid any interest to it because of my doubts, until I give it a try and I was given what I wanted and now I have pay my bills settle my debts and am a business CEO with the help of this Blank ATM Card
    you can contact the ATM HACKER that make this work out for me

    via e-mail: atmmachine1124@gmail.com

    ReplyDelete
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  56. Hello, Do you need an urgent loan? A loan to probably expand or start your own business? or you need a loan for education or to pay up your debt, We are certified, trustworthy, reliable, efficient, fast and dynamic lending company that offers loans to individuals and also cooperate with our customers, with interest rate as low as 3% that suits any customer and you will enjoy our services. So contact us now via Email: Newworldfinance.ltd@gmail.com or Newworldfinance.ltd@yahoo.com.

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  58. Hello Guys!!!I am kaison I live in florida, USA I'm 32 Years

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  63. I got my already programmed and blank ATM card to
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  71. I got my already programmed and blanked ATM card to withdraw the maximum of $50,000 daily for a maximum of 20 days. I am so happy about this because i got mine last week and I have used it to get $100,000. MRS MARY is giving out the card just to help the poor and needy though it is illegal but it is something nice and she is not like other scam pretending to have the blank ATM cards. And no one gets caught when using the card. get yours from her. Just send her an email On atmmachine443@gmail.com

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  73. i am alex i was in need of a loan to pay my debt and i was seeking for a legit loan company that could help me with a loan of $ 750 thousand dollars but i was decline of getting the amount i needed and along the line i was introduced to a private loan lender Mrs Jasmin Noor which i tried my best to give a try and i was asked to come and pay a fee which i refused because i was scared to be scammed for the second time because of my bad experience i have by trying to get this very important loan to pay my debt but Mrs Jasmin Noor gave me her word of advice and told me i am in the right place of getting a loan and i was lucky for the loan i applied for. contact via mail (jasminnoorloancompany01@gmail.com)

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  74. Hello Guys,Celebrate this Easter Season with this Life Time transforming card. I'm here to testify about the blank ATM cards which can withdraw money from any ATM machines around the world. I was very poor before and have no job.I saw so many testimony about how lank atm card was send to them and use it to collect money in any ATM machine and become rich, Email her; atmmachine321@gmail.com also and also sent me the blank card. It also can withdraw the maximum of $5,500 daily depend on the card you apply for . Carla (atmmachine321@gmail.com) is giving out the card just to help the poor. Hack and take money directly from any ATM Machine Vault with the use of ATM Programmed Card which runs in automatic mode. email atmmachine321@gmail.com on how to get it

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  78. Hello Guys,Celebrate this Easter Season with this Life Time transforming card. I'm here to testify about the blank ATM cards which can withdraw money from any ATM machines around the world. I was very poor before and have no job.I saw so many testimony about how lank atm card was send to them and use it to collect money in any ATM machine and become rich, Email her; atmmachine321@gmail.com also and also sent me the blank card. It also can withdraw the maximum of $5,500 daily depend on the card you apply for . Carla (atmmachine321@gmail.com) is giving out the card just to help the poor. Hack and take money directly from any ATM Machine Vault with the use of ATM Programmed Card which runs in automatic mode. email atmmachine321@gmail.com on how to get it

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  79. Do you need an urgent blank ATM CARD to solve your financial needs, My name is Linda Oscar, and i just want to tell the world my experience with everyone. i discovered a hacking guy called Christopher. he is really good at what he is doing, i inquired about the BLANK ATM CARD. if it works or even Exist, than i gave it a try and asked for the card and agreed to their terms and conditions. three days later i received my card and tried it with the closest ATM machine close to me, to my greatest surprise it worked like magic. i was able to withdraw up to 6000 dollars. This was unbelievable and the happiest day of my life. there is no ATM MACHINES this BLANK ATM CARD CANNOT penetrate into it because it have been programmed with various tools and software. it impossible for the CCTV to detect you i don't know why i am posting this here, i just felt this might help those of us in need of financial stability. Christopher have really change my life. if you want to contact them, HERE is the email address: (blankatmcard661@gmail.com) His website (http://blankatmcard661.wix.com/blankcard)

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  80. Good Day, My name is Lisa i am a citizen of the United State of America i want to testify of the good Loan Lender who showed light to me after been scammed by 4 different Internet international lender, they all promise to give me a loan after making me pay alot of fees which yield nothing and amounted to no positive result. i lost my hard earn money and it was a total of 8,000USD. One day as i was browsing through the internet looking forsterated when i came across a testimony man who was also scammed and eventually got linked to a legit loan company th citi bank loan (customercare@thecitibank.com) or visit www.thecitibank.com where he finally got his loan, so i decided to contact the same loan company and then told them my story on how i have been scammed by 4 different lenders who did nothing but to course me more pain. I explain to the company by mail and all they told me was to cry no more because i will get my loan in their company and also i have made the right choice of contacting them. i filled the loan application form and proceeded with all that was requested of me and I was given a loan amount of $600,000.00 Dollars by this great Company and here i am today happy with my family because the citi bank Loan Firm has given me a loan so i made a vow to my self that i will keep testifying on the internet on how i got my loan. Do you need a loan urgently? kindly and quickly contact Mr Jude Shanko Loan Firm now for your loan via email: (customercare@thecitibank.com) or visit www.thecitibank.com i believe other people are also giving testimony on this same honest lender

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  81. Do you want to start up a new business? And you need huge finance to start your business today??? Do you need a trustable loan company with a low interest rate of 3%??? Contact Mr Thomas immediately Thomasrivera101@outlook.com

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  82. loan offer

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  83. Do you know that you can hack any ATM machine !!!

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  85. Hello everyone am here to testify how i got my loan from the citi bank after alot of fake lenders deny me the opportunity to get a loan here in this forum. Mr davidson helped me and my family with a loan of 500,000 USD. After i lost 1000USD to scammers. Mr davidson assure me that he was going to help me,at first i refuse to beleive until he finally meet up with his promise.If you need a genuine loan as urgent as you want contact the citi bank via his email:(customercare@thecitibank.com) or visit www.thecitibank.com

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  87. Hi, My name Jane and i just want to share my experience with everyone. I
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  88. HOW I GOT MY LOAN
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