Wednesday, December 7, 2011

My Two Gaming Pet Peeves For the Day

Our newest game, Avernum: Escape From the Pit, has reached Release Candidate status. This means that we've made a version that seems complete and ready to sell, and we are touching it as little as possible while beta testers spend one more week trying to break it.

This means that I have a very, very important job: Doing nothing. Don't touch the app. Hands off. Anything I change has a chance of breaking something. So I'm spending this week catching up on my game-playing.

(I also made a really spiffy trailer for Avernum. Turns out, there's this site called YouTube. Who knew?)

This has given me a precious chance to find new pet peeves to complain about. And isn't that what blogs are for?

I Need To Drop Three Pounds Of Gloves So That I Can Walk Again

Of course, like everyone else in the world, our house has Skyrim-fever. As you may have heard, it's a good game.

But, like all RPGs Bethesda makes, you spend sooooo much time sorting through items. Looting the dungeons takes ten times longer than killing the monsters within. And you can only carry so many pounds of treasure. So every item you find requires tiresome "Is this hide shield worth enough money to justify the weight. OK. It weighs eight pounds and is worth 20 coins, or 2.5 coins per pound, so that is an efficient piece of treasure to pick up and ... AHHHH. MY BRAINS!!!!!" And then you pick up one suit of armor too many and you have to drop two pounds of stuff so you go through your pack to find something top drop and ...

Does anyone ever find this fun?

This is one of those things that gets hardcore gamerz mad at me, but screw realism. In my newest games, I give the player a Junk Bag. You can put infinite items in it, their weight isn't counted, and, when you reach a store, you can push a button to sell everything in it.

This is great for people who find even the awesome Dog Takes Your Stuff Back To Town To Sell It system in Torchlight too taxing.

It's the opposite of realism, and I really don't care. When I design a game, the first thing I do is decide what I want the player to spend most of his/her time doing. Hopefully, that part is where the fun is. The second thing I do is minimize time spent doing absolutely everything else.

If I can keep even one player from spending a hour picking through his or her backpack and trying to shed those three extra pounds, I have done my good work as a citizen of the Earth.

I Did Those Jumps In 61 Seconds Instead Of 59, So I Should Totally Be Punished.

In any game with a lot of jumping on platforms, it seems like a legal requirement that there has to be at least one room with a timed sequence. You're at the bottom of some shaft with sheer walls and a tunnel at the top. You push a button. Ledges slide out of the walls. And then you hear that accursed, stress-inducing ticking that lets you know that you have to get to the top quickly, or not at all.

"Tick. Tick. Tick. TICK. TICK. TICK. TICKTICKTICKTICKTICK. [Sound of ledges sliding back into walls.] [Sound of you falling to earth, swearing all the way.]"

Is there anyone, anywhere, who pushes that button, hears the telltale ticking sound, and thinks, "This is so AWESOME!"

This isn't fun. Here is why. Gaining a heroic skill (Fighting. Leaping.) is fun. Using that skill is fun. Perfecting a skill is far less fun. Repeating a series of jumps until you can do them perfectly is even less fun than that.

There. I Feel Better.

Very therapeutic. Now I can finish my game in peace.

Also, I was going to write about how every shooter now has you go down one long corridor with no branches (or alternate paths to victory, or variety), but this design trend is contemptible enough to deserve its own post. I just need time for my blood to get more angry.

117 comments:

  1. I find even the infinite junk bag to be annoying. It just encourages the attitude of if it is not bolted down, steal it so you have enough money to buy everything. It destroys the immersion for me when I have to leave destitute and starving people wherever I go in order to have enough money for training or equipment. I find I get the most enjoyment if by giving myself enough money I never have to think about it. So, whatever you do, please leave money cheats in your game.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I found your this post while searching for information about blog-related research ... It's a good post .. keep posting and updating information. best automatic pet feeders

      Delete
    2. Gaming is the good opportunity for the children to explore the mind and make the creative things. Like those study are in Montessori school they are play the games most.

      Delete
  2. From what I've noticed from watching my friends play it must be a personality thing. There are people who absolutely love micro-managing their inventory and equipment setup, to the point where they seem to prefer that over the exploring and combat, and then there are the players who spend as little time in the menu screens as possible, even if it means they're not as maxed out in stats as they could be.

    I'm the later. If I'm playing a game with lots of loot, I'll keep my current equipment as long as it seems to be doing the job of killing stuff reasonably well, and there isn't an obviously better alternative.

    I know other people who every time they clear a room and get a new pile of items, they have to systematically go through every piece, to see if they can get a +1 increase in their attack speed or something. They get off on being as strong as possible. I'm more like, "ATT 23, ATT 24, the enemies still die in three hits. Who cares?"

    ReplyDelete
  3. In Jeff's games it was always about having enough gold for the end game. Eventually you couldn't level anymore, so you needed knowledge potions. And that needed money. So you sold everything that was not nailed down to afford every last one.

    ReplyDelete
  4. 1) The Junk Bag is the best invention since sliced bread. I remember in Geneforge 1-3, when what you carried added to your encumbrance, having piles of loot I'd come back for later. Having to go back and forth between dungeon and town may be realistic, but it's a pain and a waste of time.

    2) I wouldn't mind timed levels if you didn't have to be absolutely perfect in order to pass. Having to do the same level over and over and over until you're perfect is not fun. Maybe if you could get 1st, 2nd, or 3rd place and have an award based on how well you did would be better. You can still try to do your best but won't be overly penalized if you don't have awesome reflexes.

    ReplyDelete
  5. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  6. (corrected post) My general attitude is that anything that doesn't make you more powerful shouldn't be micromanaged (and that doesn't mean the reverse is always true, either).

    Yes, having one suit of armor makes you more powerful than having zero, but having twenty is no advantage at all. Going back and forth to town is a tax on time, yet has nothing to do with difficulty or skill. So I can see a reason to have a limit on how many potions (or whatever) you can carry - or at least use/access in a single fight itself- but not things like armor.

    I remember playing a shareware RPG or another where the encumberence was "realistic" - my first fight was with a dozen bandits, and my party couldn't even carry a third of their armor (and could barely walk at that). After about three fights of going through all that stuff, trying to figure out the weight-to-value ratio and discard scores of perfectly good items I quit. It was like being teased.

    As for the other thing, if doing something slowly is fun, I don't see being forced to do it faster is more fun (many people will try to do that anyway, without any prompting). I really can't stand any sort of time limits in games these days.

    ReplyDelete
  7. My strategy is that I take EVERYTHING for a while. Then, after I buy a house, I only take gold and things that enable leveling. (ingredients, lock-picks, etc...)

    ReplyDelete
  8. What about timers that really are rather fecetious, in that they provide no real challenge but nonetheless set the mood for RRRUUUNNN!!

    ReplyDelete
  9. My biggest pet peeve has to be the good ol' "I'm playing a holy paladin of +5 Justice And Eternal Goodness but I still scrounge through the chests in a random humble peasants house to steal their stuff so I can sell it and buy my new sword."

    Seriously. I think I've just come to hate the "loot/scavenge -> sell -> buy" dynamic in all games whatsoever. Let's find more interesting approaches to weapon upgrades like enchantments (that you earn by doing things and which mean you can't get other different enchantments later)

    Hell, we can even keep the weight limits on our equipment. Just don't make me scavenge for shit. (Unless an important part of the game is that I'm a poor, humble scavenger... now THAT might be interesting)

    ReplyDelete
  10. In Skyrim the phat loot is reasonably few and far between. What'll weigh you down, without you realising it at first, are the ingredients, soul gems and potions. Before you know it those three are taking up half your weight limit.

    I really need a break from Skyrim. I'm spending more time there than at work. Last night I spent a couple of hours killing wildlife so I can maximize enchanting. There isn't a fox for miles around that does not speak my name with dread. The talking foxes, anyway.

    ReplyDelete
  11. Yes, PLEASE write a rant about rail shooters. _So_ annoying it is that there's never more than one route at any point from the beginning to the end of most (all that I've played) FPS. I mean, I can waste my time looking around random-tiny-dead-end-cavern or what have you, or walking past what's obviously the path I'm supposed to take to see what else there is (nothing interesting), but why when I know I can only go one way?

    'My biggest pet peeve has to be the good ol' "I'm playing a holy paladin of +5 Justice And Eternal Goodness but I still scrounge through the chests in a random humble peasants house to steal their stuff so I can sell it and buy my new sword."'
    Playing the first Neverwinter Nights, it annoyed me that I _couldn't_ do this :P. I got some ding to my alignment (lawful something) when I took something out of an unlocked chest in someone's house :O. But it makes sense. Personally, I like the "NY" system in the Jeff's games; even though it doesn't make as much sense, it's funner. "You're a big scary adventurer, so you can have anything except that needle and thread, which were passed down through my family for generations." It might be useful to have a repeatable, grindless, law-abiding way to get cash in RPGs, but I'm not sure what that would be.

    As for weight/item limit, I often just semi-cheated in Jeff's games :P. Calculate how much all this crap that we won't use is worth, then put a piece of garbage in my inventory and turn it into gemstones worth the same amount, then put all the junk in a chest to get it out of the way. As for things I might use: http://ompldr.org/vYm41aQ (btw, those thorn batons only have thorns in them that I've picked up :). Same for the wands.)

    ReplyDelete
  12. Jeff,

    re: the state of FPS games and their level design, have you seen this graphic before?

    http://www.halolz.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/halolz-dot-com-fpsmapdesign-1993-2010-doom.gif

    And if you're looking for an alternative, try Serious Sam. :)

    ReplyDelete
  13. onexused, there's really no reason to do that in MOST games but the lure is always there. Just keep the good/cool/expensive stuff and you'll find the game is a lot more enjoyable and you'll do just as well.

    ReplyDelete
  14. Amen, Jeff. I was playing Skyrim just yesterday, and said to my roommate, "Man, if there was an NPC in Skyrim who would go through the dungeons after me and loot them for me and split the gold 50/50, I would do it without hesitation."

    For that matter, I would do it if I only got 10%...

    All of which is saying, I hate looting bodies. Except for cool stuff. Lots of trips back and forth looting was acceptable back in pen and paper roleplaying games, as it could basically be hand-waved and glossed over (as fast travel is now).

    The junk bag is a pretty good solution. If anyone thinks it's unrealistic, just hand-wave it as fast travel to and from the dungeon and the shop with all the loot, as many times as it would take.

    P.S. Am I the only one who finds limited shopkeeper gold SUPER ANNOYING? File that one under realistic but no fun too...

    ReplyDelete
  15. First up, I LOVE the junk bag.

    I still get to mess around putting the right stuff in the right inventory (my ninja can hold weapons for people, my main character holds all the potions so I can distribute them on missions, my mage holds... 20 spare monster arms in case I have to give them to someone as part of a quest later), but I don't have to chase around dropping shit so I'll have room in my bag. I just need to think about not stealing stuff I want to leave for the deserving and getting my fighter's strength up to 14 as soon as possible so he can don some real armour.

    Allow me to make a direct comparison:
    Sacred 2.

    I love this game. I'm playing it right now. I even play it when I could be finishing Avadon (I'm only up to a certain magical tower in Khemeria).

    I also hate how SLOW it is. In Avadon the only time I really stop to think is leveling up. In Sacred 2 I stop to think every time I pick up a shiny new piece of armour. Or a weapon. Or a talisman. Or a combat rune.

    Now, fair's fair - this is entirely my fault. No one's obliging me to be a nit-picking pedantic git. But that said, in trying to increase more than one or two stats (literally more than one or two) I've got some hard choices to make every time something happens. Which is every couple of minutes.

    And don't even get me started on the looting.
    After a while I learned that switching "Pick up all" to "Pick up blue and above" actually makes me more money faster, because I can finish a simple A-to-B quest without heading back to town three times just to sell a dozen pairs of boots worth 17GP.

    So yeah, junk bag for the win.

    Also, love your new trailer. It feels more... alive than the Avadon one.

    ReplyDelete
  16. Another option is to reduce the amount of treasure enemies drop. For example, you could have only every 10th goblin drop anything at all. Instead of generating money by selling the PCs could generate wealth by being payed by their commanders or whoever has contracted their services.

    ReplyDelete
  17. I felt one of the great spells from Dungeon Siege was the Transmute spell. It let me convert crap on the ground into gold. Granted, I was taking a loss since it was less gold than what I could get for selling the item outright, but when I'm out of space in my pack I just didn't want to drop the item and leave it without getting anything. That little bit of compensation made it easier.

    I wish that spell had made it into other games.

    ReplyDelete
  18. Exactly. The last thing I want, at the end of a hard day's work, is more work.

    And if I have five minutes at the end of a hard day's work to have fun, then I want every single second of those five minutes to be fun.

    But the again, how will teh l33t insult teh n00bs without repetitive, tedious and difficult things to do?

    "Pressed the A key one million times over the course of a week to defeat an endless hoard of zombies! Now I'm level 100! Why are you not bowing??"

    ReplyDelete
  19. I've installed a mod which makes alchemy ingredients and food/drink weightless, it made a surprising difference! I've also got the sign of the steed which increases my weight allowance by 100. Makes things much less of a hassle.

    Daniel.

    ReplyDelete
  20. Junk bag is a good idea, if I ever finish a game with lots of selling in it I'll steal that idea.

    Some games consider inventory management to be part of the challenge of the game. (Roguelikes do this a lot, nethack and crawl for example).

    But I think at least crawl is considering to remove more and more of this challenge part as it is simply not much fun.

    Of course this inventory challenge isn't that related to weight. As most games still only have burdened or not, instaid of some sort of mechanic where you only move slowly.

    On the new inventory thing, I rather just have a mechanic that tells me if I have not read a scroll/note/book etc or not. Just as games really need to include a note if a corpse/box/chest/etc is empty, and if you already looked inside it once before. Oblivion missed this empty indicator, and it was a bit irritating at times. And while new bethesda games have a empty indicator I still miss some sort of indication that tells me if I already looked into a container before. Especially when the container is a heap of bodyparts :D.

    ReplyDelete
  21. "What'll weigh you down, without you realising it at first, are the ingredients, soul gems and potions. Before you know it those three are taking up half your weight limit."

    Exactly - this has just happened to me. In general I find the weight limits far too low - Stamina doesn't raise them enough.

    As for realism - who needs it? I'm glad I don't have to eat and sleep and use the bathroom all the time in Skyrim, though the "well-rested" bonus is quite sweet.

    "Am I the only one who finds limited shopkeeper gold SUPER ANNOYING? File that one under realistic but no fun too..."

    No - I hate that too. The levels are so incredibly low. I usually end up doing a wealth transfer: selling them my stuff, buying some expensive but lightweight potions so they have gold again, then selling off the rest of my heavy stuff.

    Just can't wait until I finally decide to do the main quest, release dragons and buy a house, so I can safely dump all the stuff there that I will never actually need, but cannot bear to part with.

    Give me a junk bag any day.

    "On the new inventory thing, I rather just have a mechanic that tells me if I have not read a scroll/note/book etc or not."

    Exactly. And how irritating is it that recipes are listed as "Invisibility recipe" "Resist Fire recipe" rather than "Recipe: [whatever]" as Spell Tomes are, so they group alphabetically?

    ReplyDelete
  22. Jeff, You comment on timed jumping sections reminded me of Divinity II, as it EXACTLY describes one of the most annoying sequences in that game.

    A totally lousy camera angle (and a brief, needless unskippable cinematic that cuts into the time required to jump to the platforms to throw a switch before they vanish) absolutely stops things cold in this one dungeon. Even when you manage to make the jump to the platform and hit the switch, you STILL need to drop all the way to the bottom of the tall chamber and grab the chest or it disappears, forcing you to waste about ten minutes of platforming again (only to fail flipping the switch in time until you give up in frustration).

    I did this in the original Div II in about ten attempts, but for some reason in Dragon Knight Saga, I had a devil of a time making the same jump and gave up after about three times the tries. Granted, what's in the chest isn't spectacular, but still, it's a total pain in the neck that didn't need to be in an otherwise fun game.

    As for Skyrim's weight problems, a simple warp spell to a town from any dungeon WOULD have helped a lot. I find myself loading up my AI partner to his or her maximum carry weight, running all the way back to the beginning of a dungeon, exiting and warping back to sell off stuff. Yeah, it gets old fast, but I like looting EVERYTHING I can get my grubby paws on.

    As for shopkeeper gold issues, once you buy into a few shops, there should be enough gold to go around unless you're crafting enchanted daggers galore as an exploit. Me, I've always hated most RPG's where even the lowliest shopkeepers have infinite amounts of gold for sold items, but a crappy stock that's useless for the rest of the game once you've cleared the first dungeon.

    ReplyDelete
  23. great post, There is a big sigh of relief coming out of Europe as Italian and Spanish bond yields decline below the 7% danger level. This occurred after last week’s central bank flood of unlimited liquidity to the European banking system, basically for free. According to the Financial Times, 39 banks obtained $51.3bn in loans so far.

    I ask the question who is buying the bonds? If a soft default of Greek debt with bond holders agreeing under pressure to change the original terms is actually accomplished, then how can they attract buyers of debt leaden sovereign bonds? Particularly as they are putting in austerity measures that inhibit economic growth and therefore hamper the ability to pay these debts even further. I looked and looked and so far could not find the answer to that question, so my guess is the ECB and not private sources are buying the bonds.
    us mint gold coins

    ReplyDelete
  24. I appreciate your attitude toward the problem, what do I want my players doing? It's easy to follow the template, accepting the trade offs other chose long ago. Afterall is it realistic to find progressively better and better equipment, more and more gold, harder and harder enemies - I digress. The same thought could be used to include a sell button in inventory, and auto-sell features, or just less loot - afterall tons of junk gear is just junk...

    Lots of options, but I like how you're thinking through what players should be using their brain power to do.

    ReplyDelete
  25. Just a thought:
    Why not simple make one area in menu like "tricks & hacks", with enable Junk Bag or not option in it? After that both side will be happy. Hardcore gamers will switch it off, while lazy people will leave it on (like me).

    ReplyDelete
  26. I actually like a lot timed sequences, but I'm a fan of Prince of Persia, so that's pretty understandable.

    ReplyDelete
  27. Awesome blogg as always Jeff :) I too feel the frustration of modern AAA games.. dont get me wrong there are some very good ones..but they are very few and far between imo.. Everything now seems to be heading in a direction thats best for the profits and not the game/gamer..
    After reading http://uk.gamespot.com/news/obsidian-extols-digital-distribution-6347487 made me see that its not just me that feels this way..
    To charge 50-60 quid for a game is 'fair' IF its worth it..too many devs charge top whack for games that are poorly designed/put together, buggy as hell {The whole "its on pc so we can release it early top whack and just patch it later" really annoys me} some games that have been released in the year or so should 'never' have been released imo..
    Games are shorter now than ever before, buggier, more expensive and generally not up to scratch..oh an the whole console port issue annoys the hell outta me Other than your games Jeff, there are very few that I buy at release now because of these exact reasons..
    Asassins Creed: BH + Revelations, DA:O, DA:OA DA2, The Witcher II, Skyrim, Lotr: Witn They are all the games I have bought brand new at release over the last few years.. + Expansion packs for WoW and Lotro Ohh and Rift.. There has been other tiles that I have been excited about, but they just didn't live up to the hype and were flawed..I wouldnt even pay 20 quid for them let alone 50 -60..
    You games are always spot on Jeff.. Other devs should come to you for lessons..xP

    ReplyDelete
  28. The Junk Bag is a great idea. I was confused at first, since I was used to the standard weight allowance of RPGs, but greatly relieved once I realized it only applied to the armor you wear. I love getting and comparing loot, but I hate inventory management. It's not fun at all. So what if it's not realistic? I'm throwing fireballs at a zombie, or shooting at a super mutant, and you're telling me that a bottomless bag is not realistic?

    I also agree about tightly timed puzzles. I don't mind the ticking, or the timing, I mind the tight timing that requires near perfection. Take, for example, the rooftop race story missions of Assassin's Creed. The game is immersive right up until I fail, and have to repeat, a timed challenge. The more times I have to repeat it, the more frustrated I get. Let me make a few mistakes and still complete the story mission. Save the difficulty for the optional race missions.

    As far as corridor shooters, I disagree there. Yes, there's not much freedom, but the games are basically roller-coaster rides. By restricting where players can go, devs can tailor the roller-coaster experience to be highly polished and exciting. I don't want everyone to follow that style of design, but there's the same place for mindless action and excitement in games as there is in movies. Sometimes you just want to sit back and enjoy the ride.

    ReplyDelete
  29. ^^^The problem is, games are supposed to be an interactive medium. Why bother wasting time developing an entire game engine and just render it as a first person CG movie? It'd be less tiring than holding down W and rapidly clicking! I don't see why a game needs to be on rails to be highly polished and exciting, especially in this day and age.

    Also, for Skyrim's weight system, it would make more sense to slow your movement speed based on how much you carry, not just suddenly collapse because you hit a certain amount (you're not a camel!) What would be even cooler, is being able to buy a wagon to attach your horse to. You can then park it outside of a dungeon, and easily transport stuff you loot into the wagon, then go back for seconds. Of course, you risk bandits coming by, but that's the tradeoff. ;p

    What I really hate is how games actually encourage you to pick up every random piece of crap then tell you it's too much. The best solution to inventory management is to prevent it from being a problem in the first place.

    ReplyDelete
  30. I think exactly the same way about boss battles as you about timed sequence. I could not beat a Metroid game since Super Metroid because of these damned final boss battles even though most of the game is a breeze. The game with the most satisfying boss battle must be F.E.A.R: a single bullet to the head and it's over.

    And yet, everybody seems to love them, these boss battles. "They give a sense of accomplishment", "they require the player to use all the skills and knowledge gained during the game" and blahblah. BS, most of the time, they are tediously difficult and artificial (do I really have to kill these guy 3 times in a different way each time?!) and are just an annoying obstacle between me and a well-earned end sequence. Boss battles have to go.

    ReplyDelete
  31. Excellent post. I was checking this blog continuously and I’m impressed! The information is very helpful especially the last part. I am very interested in such info. I was seeking this particular information for a very long time. Thank you and good luck. Web Application Development

    ReplyDelete
  32. IF you are playing Skyrim on Xbox, you can't actually mod the carry weights, but you CAN command a follower to pick up any loot/loot containers other than dead bodies/locked containers. Through this they can actually exceed the carry weight. Gotta love Bethesda's endless bugs. Makes ya wonder how Jeff's able to make his games so nicely.
    You should give them a tip or two ;)
    (this works on PC, but it's a bit pointless considering the weight mods on Nexus and SteamWorkshop)

    ReplyDelete
  33. Its a great pleasure reading your post.Its full of information I am looking for and I love to post a comment that "The content of your post is awesome" Great work Jayaliga.com Agen Sbobet

    ReplyDelete
  34. I like to read your article because it really helps me. Thank you for sharing this post with us.
    Agen Togel Terpercaya
    Prediksi Singapore

    ReplyDelete

  35. Good website! I truly love how it is easy on my eyes and the data are well written. I am wondering how I could be notified whenever a new post has been made. I have subscribed to your feed which must do the trick! Have a great day!
    real money slots

    ReplyDelete
  36. Fantastic articles is post by you in this blog. You give a nice thing. Thank you for such a nice article.
    gclub

    ReplyDelete
  37. รถเช่าราคาไม่แพง ของ BANANA Rent-a-car ทุกคัน เป็นรถยนต์ที่มีคุณภาพ แล้วก็ผ่านการตรวจภาวะให้มีความสมบูรณ์ที่สุด
    ก่อนถึงมือคุณ สามารถวิ่งได้ทั่วไทย โดยไม่กำหนดระยะทาง ดังที่คุณอยาก
    พร้อมด้วยสัญญาประกันภัยชั้น 1 ที่จะดูแลคุณตลอดการเดินทาง

    สำหรับในการเช่ารถราติดอยู่ถูก ที่ง่ายเสมือนปอกกล้วยเข้าปาก

    เช่ารถราค้างถูก จะต้องที่ BANANA rent-a-car เช่ารถยนต์แบบง่ายๆสบายๆหากว่าไม่มีบัตรเครดิตก็สามารถเช่ารถยนต์ได้
    รวมถึงเช่ารถยนต์กับพวกเรา ไม่จำกัดระยะทาง จะวิ่งไกลขนาดไหนก็ได้ เชื่อมั่นหายห่วงด้วยสัญญาประกันภัยชั้น 1 ทุกคัน
    ด้วยประสบการณ์สำหรับเพื่อการให้บริการรถเช่ามา 6 ปี พวกเราก็เลยเป็นมือโปรที่มีความรู้และมีความเข้าใจลูกค้า รวมทั้งวางแบบระบบการเช่ารถยนต์ให้ง่ายที่สุด
    เช่ารถ
    เช่ารถกรุงเทพ
    เช่ารถราคาถูก
    เช่ารถรายเดือน
    เช่ารถขับเอง

    ReplyDelete
  38. Hello! I just would like to give a huge thumbs up for the great info you have here on this post. I will be coming back to your blog for more soon.

    Twittbot.net
    Website
    Information

    ReplyDelete
  39. Nice Post! The increasing importance of Writing Assignments has prompted students to take a helping hand from
    Assignment Help Melbourne
    Assignment Help Firm

    ReplyDelete
  40. Welcome to the universe of programming and find out about programming. On the off chance that you are battling with the homework of Java, C, C++ or some other programming dialect, at that point our specialists are accessible to help you whenever. We have been assisting with Programming Assignment Help and tasks requiring serious utilization of question arranged ideas.
    Programming Help

    ReplyDelete
  41. Academic Writing Pro offers the best assignment writing services for students who live in USA.We have been offer top quality assignment writing services to many students across USA.Our assignment writing team will write professional assignments for you.We will always deliver your assignments on time.

    ReplyDelete
  42. For a change, there is an article that focuses on a specific topic and is not all over the places. I like the fact that it is actually problem-solving and not just random and baseless subject. Great going!
    economics homework help
    college assignment help

    ReplyDelete
  43. Amazing, exceptionally useful post I cherished it and wish to see more posts like that structure this blog. as of late I composed an article about photography on the off chance that anybody is keen on photography you can peruse it by visiting my Photography blog.

    ReplyDelete
  44. Amazing, exceptionally useful post I cherished it and wish to see more posts like that structure this blog. as of late I composed an article about photography. on the off chance that anybody is keen on photography you can peruse it by visiting my Photography blog.

    ReplyDelete
  45. These are the general population, situs poker online terpopuler amateur brokers gaze upward to for agen poker terbaru learning things about the business that exclusive an ace can reveal.

    ReplyDelete
  46. Luffypoker situs agen judi online resmi di indonesia dengan permainan idn poker yang terbaru dan paling lengkap di indonesia, dalam satu aplikasi idn games anda bisa bermain games poker online dan ceme online dalam satu apk android / ios daftar poker

    ReplyDelete

  47. I like your article very much. If you are interested in playing games and making good money too
    rygfdgv.blogprodesign.com

    ReplyDelete
  48. I must say I enjoy this kind of submit. The style Poker Online of the property is quite gorgeous. I will be extremely blessed in order to arrive at notice the web site. You will follow-up Maintain the nice perform.

    ReplyDelete
  49. Awesome article that you have given here perfectly, thank you so much
    Photo restoration services

    ReplyDelete
  50. I am glad after coming on this site! It has the information that I was searching from so long. Students struggling to write their academic assignments can pick for our assignment help service and can get a well written work from us.

    ReplyDelete
  51. We offer some different characteristics in our thesis writing administration that make us the best thesis writing specialist organization on the planet and the tributes we get from the students are sufficient to say that the least. myassignmenthelp

    ReplyDelete
  52. Hey, great content as always. Keep up the good work! Considering the problems a student has to face while developing impactful content for his academic assignments, I would suggest the scholars browse through the numerous online essay writing help services offered by the highly qualified experts of the MyAssignmentHelpAu platform. You are bound to receive 100% plagiarism-free outcomes for distinct assignment formats at highly economical rates. It is definitely worth giving a try.

    ReplyDelete
  53. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  54. The blog written is extremely impressive, with a great topic. make my thesis

    ReplyDelete
  55. Its like you read my mind! You appear to know so much about this, like you wrote the book in it or something. dissertation writing help

    ReplyDelete
  56. เช่ารถกระบะ, เช่ารถสี่ล้อใหญ่
    วินปิคอัพ ศูนย์รวมรถกระบะให้เช่า/รถสี่ล้อใหญ่ให้เช่า สำหรับใช้ดำเนินธุรกิจขนส่งสินค้าทั่วไป/สินค้าแช่เย็น โดยมีรถเช่าหลากหลายแบบ อาทิเช่น รถกระบะหลังคาสูงตู้ทึบ, รถกระบะคอกเหล็ก, รถกระบะแครี่บอย, รถกระบะห้องเย็น, รถ4ล้อใหญ่ตู้ทึบ, รถ4ล้อใหญ่ห้องเย็น ฯลฯ
    เช่ารถกระบะขนของขับเองพร้อมประกันภัยรถยนต์ รถเช่ารายวัน, รายเดือน, รายปี
    สนใจติดต่อ เช่ารถกระบะ, เช่ารถสี่ล้อใหญ่ บริษัทวินปิคอัพ
    รายละเอียดเพิ่มเติม
    รถกระบะให้เช่า, เช่ารถกระบะ
    เช่ารถห้องเย็น, รถห้องเย็นให้เช่า

    รถรับจ้างกรุงเทพ-รถขนของทั่วประเทศไทย
    บริษัทวินปิคอัพ ชำนาญงานโลจิสติกส์อันดับต้นๆ ของประเทศไทย ซึ่งทีมงานของเราดำเนินงานรถรับจ้างขนของมานานหลายสิบปี และเป็นศูนย์รวมทีมงานมืออาชีพในด้านรถขนของ
    ทีมงานที่มีความเชี่ยวชาญเรื่องขนย้ายสิ่งของ, ทำงานร่วมกันเป็นทีม และบริษัทสนับสนุนในเรื่องนโยบายที่มุ่งมั่นพัฒนาคุณภาพของพนักงานให้มีความเข้าใจในงานขนย้ายสิ่งของและส่งเสริมให้พนักงานของเราเป็นพนักงานที่เข้าสู่สุดยอดงานรถรับจ้างพร้อมคนยกของมืออาชีพ
    รับจ้างขนย้าย ย้ายบ้าน, หอพัก, คอนโด, โกดังสินค้า, สำนักงาน, ส่งสินค้าทั่วไป, ส่งสินค้าแช่เย็น ฯลฯ บริการทุกวัน 24 ชั่วโมง ทั่วกรุงเทพและทั่วไทย
    สนใจติดต่อ รถรับจ้าง, รถขนของ บริษัทวินปิคอัพ
    เบอร์โทรศัพท์: 0896106900
    ID-LINE: @win1
    Website: รถรับจ้าง. รถห้องเย็นขนของ

    ReplyDelete
  57. Pets are like a Gaming platform .When you Brought up your Pet . You have love to them and you spent most of time with them.
    leading general contractor in portland or

    ReplyDelete
  58. ตรวจสอบบัญชี บริษัทตรวจสอบบัญชี ผู้ตรวจสอบบัญชีเงินเดือน สํานักงานตรวจสอบบัญชี บริษัทสอบบัญชี ขั้นตอนการตรวจสอบบัญชี
    ปรึกษาไม่อั้น เรามุ่งมั่นแก้ปัญหาบัญชีภาษีให้แก่ลูกค้า https://inflowaccount.co.th
    ตรวจสอบบัญชี

    ReplyDelete
  59. There are many benefits of using point-of-sale software. First, it provides a lot of business data that is needed in order to run the company efficiently. Second, it helps reduce errors by providing important information quickly and accurately. Finally, POS Learn more about POS Software in Bangladesh. Best-in-class software reduces costs for your business by streamlining operations and increasing efficiency.

    ReplyDelete
  60. For many people, it's important to know the benefits of golden teacher mushrooms. For example, they are effective for neurodegenerative diseases like Alzheimer’s disease and Parkinson’s disease. They also help improve memory retention. Learn more about golden teacher mushrooms. Golden teacher mushrooms are good for you because they'll reduce your risk of heart disease.

    ReplyDelete
  61. West coast weeds are great because they help reduce erosion and eliminate noxious weeds. Learn more about westcoastweeds. One of the best benefits is that you will feel relaxed. It's perfect for when you're in a stressful situation and need to take a break.

    ReplyDelete
  62. There are many ways to increase your search engine ranking. One of them is through Local SEO. Learn more local SEO expert in Bangladesh. Google usually ranks local businesses on the first page. It's important to make sure that your business has a Google My Business Page and is optimized for mobile searches (the majority of searchers use their phones). Make sure you have proper details like phone number

    ReplyDelete
  63. El Jefe is a great Sativa-dominant hybrid that's used to relieve depression and stress. If you're looking for a potent strain, this one definitely sticks out as an option. Learn more El Jefe Strain. One of the best things about El Jefe is its potency. It's one of the most potent strains I've smoked and it makes me feel

    ReplyDelete
  64. Great write up. I have never seen such a masterpiece formulated with precision, accuracy and much-needed information. Thanks for sharing. But you want to access ample datasets for your assignments, take free assistance from SourceEssay online assignment help Australia.

    ReplyDelete
  65. Nice information, you write very nice articles, I visit your website for regular updates.
    สเปรย์ ป้องกันโควิด

    ReplyDelete
  66. That’s why marketing and advertising that you simply applicable exploration previous to publishing. 야한동영상

    Also feel free to visit may webpage check this link
    야설

    ReplyDelete
  67. If more people that write articles really concerned themselves with writing great content like you, more readers would be interested in their writings. Thank you for caring about your content. 일본야동

    Also feel free to visit may webpage check this link
    한국야동

    ReplyDelete
  68. What’s up to all, it’s genuinely a fastidious for me to visit this website, it consists of priceless Information. 국산야동

    Also feel free to visit may webpage check this link
    야설

    ReplyDelete
  69. Digital marketing is a field with lucrative career options. The options in the career of digital marketing.

    After the pandemic period, digital marketing has emerged with a lot of opportunities across the globe.

    Currently, Delhi is now a great stop for digital marketers and many folks are looking forward to starting a career in digital marketing.

    Parallelly, there are digital marketing institutes that provide the best digital marketing course in Delhi.

    ReplyDelete
  70. Such an informative blog, love to read, I always prefer your blog to get more information, it is a learning platform for me, just you need Best digital marketing institutes in Delhi to get more audience

    ReplyDelete
  71. Our Cloud Computing Assignment Help is available online. Cloud computing is a huge and varied subject that requires a complete understanding of the fundamentals in order for students to write a perfect online assignment. Students are under a lot of pressure when it comes to cloud computing assignment assistance to understand the subject and then write about it. So here our experts are available to provide to help them.

    ReplyDelete
  72. Digital Marketing is to promote your brands or products and services by using electronic devices or the internet. Examples of digital marketing: SEO, SMM, SEM, Email Marketing, content marketing. GRK Training Institute is leading with Digital Marketing Training Course in Bangalore. GRK Training Institute has a wide range of training courses and Digital Marketing Training Courses in Bangalore mentors play an essential role in an institute, the level of education. Contact Us: +91-6302112721.
    Visit Us: https://grktraining.com/digital-marketing-training-marathahalli-bangalore.php

    ReplyDelete
  73. Lucajackpot Thank You.
    บาคาร่าออนไลน์ ได้เงินจิง ฟรีเครดิต แจกสูตรแทงบาคาร่า เว็บพนันบาคาร่า
    บาคาร่า

    ReplyDelete


  74. 3. Slow (and even stop) hair loss. But:

    If you truly want it to work (and I know you do) - Read Kiierr Laser Cap Reviews

    ReplyDelete
  75. Aspiring marketers could find great opportunities on YouTube by using its many features to generate traffic and reach new audiences through online marketing efforts. YouTube is a great platform for sharing videos with the world. It has millions of users who can watch them at any time, anywhere. Read about YouTube To Mp3 and youtube converter mp4 reviews.

    ReplyDelete
  76. I'm watching it. Vaping is estimated to be 95% better for your health than smoking, and its effectiveness as a smoking cessation aid means that you are more likely to reduce or quit smoking. This is the greatest advantage of all. Learn more about weed pens.

    ReplyDelete
  77. Mechanical Engineering students deal with a variety of tasks, including research writing, presentations, coursework, and programming. We have subject matter experts who have extensive experience with each assignment type and can deliver high-quality Mechanical Engineering Assignment Help quickly.

    ReplyDelete
  78. https://kemaichemgmbh.com/product/buy-acetic-acid-environmental-grade-plus/
    https://kemaichemgmbh.com/product/ammonium-sulfamate-acs/
    https://kemaichemgmbh.com/product/buy-nitroethane-99-buy-nitroethane-79-24-3-online/
    https://kemaichemgmbh.com/product/lithium-nitride-99-4-metals-basis/
    https://kemaichemgmbh.com/product/allithiamine-sterilized/
    https://kemaichemgmbh.com/product/nitromethane-suppliers-online-nitroethane-for-sale/
    https://kemaichemgmbh.com/product/buy-online-silver-nitrate-99-9-sale-online-for-silver-nitrate-99-9/
    https://kemaichemgmbh.com/product/bromoethane/

    ReplyDelete
  79. Thanks and keep sharing such valuable updates through your side. You can also visit ลิ้งค์รับทรัพย์ igoal

    ReplyDelete
  80. As evident as the benefits of a POS system are—with some businesses increasing sales by as much as 200% via the reporting feature alone—there are still businesses out there that use some combination of manual methods, cash registers, accounting software, and spreadsheets for processing transactions and recording sales. Visit to learn about POS Software in Bangladesh.

    ReplyDelete
  81. Modern, cloud-based POS systems either include all these tools in an all-in-one system or give you the option to connect to other software applications to build your complete software solution. This is frequently referred to as “integration” or using “integrated apps.” best POS software in Bangladesh

    ReplyDelete
  82. Use apps that take you step by step processes on how to speak Korean and many other languages. Find online penpals who might be happy to chat too. Be friendly and reach out online via Korean forums where people are happy to chat with you. Visit to Korean language training center in bangladesh.

    ReplyDelete
  83. Oh! Great blog you posted here and it's really informative and useful. Do you know what I like most about your content? It's your words that you choose, really easy and effective words. Like you, I also want to promote my assignment help website and want to attract genuinely academic people to my site that's why I wrote content according to them. So please visit my website and let me know about the pros and cons of the site. We are Santa Clara, USA-based Assignment help service, but we provide the best assignment service worldwide. If you are a student and you need any type of assignment help online then contact our experts for information and guidance.

    ReplyDelete
  84. Nice blog! Great work. Keep it up.
    Do you want to sell your phone in good price? Click here : sell mobile phone

    ReplyDelete
  85. I like your all post. You have done really good work. Thank you for the information you provide, it helped me a lot. I hope to have many more entries or so from you.
    Very interesting blog.
    Nicepage Crack
    360 Total Security Crack
    Pinegrow Web Editor Crack
    CyberGhost VPN Crack
    Movavi Video Editor Plus Crack
    Wondershare Filmora X Crack
    iDevice Manager Pro Crack

    ReplyDelete
  86. It’s awesome to pay a visit to this web page and reading the views of all friends regarding this paragraph, while I am also eager of getting experience. thesis writing services

    ReplyDelete
  87. https://psychedelia.io is a cohesive but distributed group of the most knowledgable and experienced psychedelic producers in Canada. Every member of our team possesses years of experience either studying, cultivating, synthesizing, or consuming these substances, along with a burning desire to proliferate the virtue & benefit that each different experience can provide.

    ReplyDelete
  88. Your article is well written and simple to understand.You make excellent points.Thank you for sharing amazing blog.Nice.....

    ReplyDelete
  89. Blue Iris License Key is an era that indicates the camera decides the present state of affairs. No interface’s just like the only one used by you. Moreover, passwords aren’t forwarded in the easy textual content. This software will minimize the opportunity for all people else to locate the code required.

    ReplyDelete